This comes from our good friend…the Coach.
It just goes to show you that simply “good intentions” can sometimes do worse than nothing.
I’d love to hear some arguments from some that disagree with Mr Shigwati. Does anyone see any parallels to a failed public welfare program in our own country?
Posted at 06:24 pm by Logipundit
|Posted by scottie @ 07/08/2005 10:05 AM PDT|
|very interesting article, with many good points. i do see a parallel between his arguments and the public welfare system in the US, but in regards to the mindset of the people on welfare, and how they must pursue an independent and empowering course to get themselves out of the system. There are a few big differences, though. The poor in Africa do not have to deal with the drugs that surround the welfare recipients in the US. So that problem must be addressed simultaneously. Many African nations are fighting civil wars, which lends to the chaos and the poverty, and the corruption, which withholds “proper” aid. Those circumstances are not seen in the public welfare system in the US.
To be clear, I think there should be little public assistance, and that people should have to work for what they get. Adam Smith’s philosophy of “you don’t work, you don’t eat” should be driven into people’s minds. Most of our founding fathers, especially the authors and contributors to the Constitution, espoused beliefs that are closely associated with one party’s platform today, and I’ll give you a hint, it ain’t the Repubs or the Dems ….
|Posted by Johnny B @ 07/08/2005 10:26 AM PDT|
|Is it the constitutional law party? Just guessing.|
|Posted by Johnny B @ 07/08/2005 11:10 AM PDT|
|From now on logipundit has to dismiss Scottie’s arguments as “Smithite”.|
|Posted by BP @ 07/08/2005 04:48 PM PDT|
|LOL…that’s good, and I’m 100% in agreement with Scottie on this one (even if he is a Smithite)…I’m assuming we’re talking either Constitutional or Libertarian…the former of which I definitely have a lot in common with, as does Scottie.
You also have no disagreements with me that the Republicans are just as guilty of throwing money at problems as the Democrats and the nature of the modern Senate is such that very little is seldom accomplished EXCEPT throwing money at things.
I do have a question, though, for clarification: do you think the civil wars, brutal dictators, famine, etc, is MORE or LESS stringent (or equal for that matter) on someone’s free reign for growth than the drugs, gangs, and violence associated with the inner city projects in the US?
|Posted by scottie @ 07/09/2005 07:14 AM PDT|
clarify that last question for me.
i didn’t quite understand the question.
|Posted by BP @ 07/09/2005 02:09 PM PDT|
|I had offered a parallel between the damage caused by aid to Africa and the damage caused by an overly generous welfare system in the US. Here was your response:
“There are a few big differences, though…The poor in Africa do not have to deal with the drugs that surround the welfare recipients in the US. So that problem must be addressed simultaneously. Many African nations are fighting civil wars, which lends to the chaos and the poverty, and the corruption, which withholds “proper” aid. Those circumstances are not seen in the public welfare system in the US.”
So is what you’re saying is that the corruption, civil wars, and tyranny surrounding the poor of Africa are as damaging elements as the drugs, gangs, and violence in US cities. In both cases, throwing money at the problem does not help unless the other problems surrounding it are addressed.
That’s the parallel…so I agree there are differences, but I think the differences have the same result:
A dependent population unable to satisfy its own needs because of a political system (whether it be the US Federal and local governments in the case of the American Welfare system, or the UN and the entire developed world vis-a-vis G8 summits, etc., in the case of Africa) that has done nothing but throw money at the problem for about 50 years.
The only time that the poverty level drops in the US is when welfare is restricted; not when it is increased. We’ll most likely find that if aid to Africa is DECREASED, then things will begin to happen. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen any time soon, given the recent meeting in Scotland.
|Posted by scottie @ 07/10/2005 07:25 PM PDT|
|ok, i now understand your question, and i further understand your comments, and you make a good argument. money thrown into a system that is riddled with problems on the periphery is not a panacea for ending those inherent problems, and i have nothing to say in response, as the point is quite good.
by the way, did you check out the annual reports from amnesty on the israel-palestine issue (that i included in response to another entry, as i am still in the dark on how to make my own entry, despite sending you an email earlier this week), and did you notice that this group made a strong case that israeli defense forces and the over-arching institutions in israel treat palesinians like cattle ? did you further notice that criticism of israel is NOT anti-semitic in nature?
this argument is quite frequently used when discussing the israeli-palestinian issue, but the argument itself has been de-bunked over and over again, ad nauseam. so i expect that eventually that realization might slowly penetrate the US media outlets …. and the US citizens who put great stock into what the US media outlets claim.